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  • Hi! Great to see someone here. I really appreciate your edits!

    Just a quick note, the infoboxes are designed to auto-categorize everything, so you don't actually need to manually add categories ever. Happy editing!

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    • So, to explain my edits:

      • I did a full overhaul of the main page based on other wikis, which we can tweak as desired.
      • I updated the articles you added to with fiction information to include that under the "Fiction" subheader, to cleanly sort it from the game data. We will need to update most of the citations to fit the correct formatting (see Bill Washington's page) and replace the page numbers/"short story dedicated to" bits with the actual titles of the short stories. I have the book myself, so I can try to look this up at some point, but if you can do it I would be so appreciative!
      • For the article that only have fiction information (see Bill Washington), I updated those to use standard format and to summarize the plot information, instead of just copying the text. I believe we could legally get away with having some sort of Appendix/storytitle pages that have the text of each short story, noting them as to be used for citing, but for the mainspace articles we want to keep to synopsis to avoid copyright infringement accusations.

      As far as keeping game/fiction data sorted, can you take a look at http://khwiki.com/Xehanort , specifically at the tabs at the top of the page? I've been toying with the idea of splitting each game's info into a different subarticle, with a main "fiction" page as the face for each topic. What do you think?

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    • Hi, thank you for contacting me! Glad to see you take care of the wiki.

      I should probably have contacted you regarding my edits beforehand, but since no permission was required, I just jumped into it.

      It seems to me that you have been setting up the wiki to include all the games in the Arkham Files, and I really like that idea. My suggestion for this kind of approach is that there should be pages for places, organizations, people/characters, ancient ones etc. These pages should start off with a general description for the item in the overall Arkham Horror files coninuity (what you call 'fiction'); following that, there can be sections for each game, with card images, statistics, etc.

      )Regarding the tabs as in the K.H wiki, I think they could work, if it's too much trouble in adding them, I think also subsequent section on the same page could be enough for now.)

      I consider the Investigators of Arkham Horror a prime source for general description and details, so I would not advise to move that below the CoC:CG statistics as you've done now.

      Regarding the quotes, I believe quoting a small percentage of words from the book, just direct descriptions of people or places, would be considered as fair use, anyway if you don't want to risk it that's fine. By the same token, you should remove card images from the wiki.

      By the way, the AH LCG is my main focus of interest at the moment, so if you'd be willing to add the relevant templates and icons, I could start adding the investigator information for this game.

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    • By the way, I believe a list is more effective sometimes.

      "Independence Square is a location that appears in Arkham Horror Second Editionlocated in Arkham's Downtown neighborhood, and a Support Card that appears in the Call of Cthulhu: The Card Game Arkham Edition."

      You can be sure this is not the end of it, there will be more games where this location is present. A bullet list will allow us to quickly add to the list without rewriting the whole sentence/making it awkwardly long. The same goes for the bullet list of the people working at or attending Velma's Diner.

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    • I should probably have contacted you regarding my edits beforehand, but since no permission was required, I just jumped into it.

      Absolutely feel free to jump in and be bold! I like the TIoAH information you added, and I've been wanting to start implementing fiction sections for ages. I'm hoping that we can eventually get to a point where we reference the game info something like MTG wiki, where a bit of flavortext will be used as a reference for some topic or another (Ex. Vaught or Archmage Magnus Arcanis). All that I ask is that, for something that does already have an archetype (Elder Sign, Mansions, Call of Cthulhu), please use the existing pages as examples. I'm working on finishing the info from those, then getting to Arkham Horror, Eldritch Horror, and the fiction.

      My suggestion for this kind of approach is that there should be pages for places, organizations, people/characters, ancient ones etc.

      I think Investigator would fulfill what you're talking about -- a page comparing the different incarnations of a topic across the media. I'm also planning to create a similar page for Enemies, Ancient Ones, and Locations, as those have the same topics showing up again and again. Feel free to start any that you think will work, using that as an example.

      I consider the Investigators of Arkham Horror a prime source for general description and details, so I would not advise to move that below the CoC:CG statistics as you've done now.

      It's not meant to be "below CoC stats", but instead "below the introduction", which lists what the topic is (a character in X, a card in Y, a token in Z). If you take a look at Shotgun, for example, you'll see that all the stats go in the top right corner, which is just a function of it being an infobox.

      Regarding the quotes, I believe quoting a small percentage of words from the book, just direct descriptions of people or places, would be considered as fair use, anyway if you don't want to risk it that's fine. By the same token, you should remove card images from the wiki.

      Quotes should be fine, for citations and appendices, but as a general rule we should avoid using direct quotes to fill in the fiction sections as it doesn't come off as optimal writing, and looks too close to plagiarism (you can see this on other wikis, where you read the publisher's PR, the wikia article, the wikipedia article, and for example a kotaku article, and all use exactly the same phrases to describe a subject. It doesn't look good.). The "Story so far" bits are a bit special, since they are card information that doesn't fit in the infobox, so I was thinking we could use something like https://www.khwiki.com/Template:Q to wrap those excerpts.

      By the way, the AH LCG is my main focus of interest at the moment, so if you'd be willing to add the relevant templates and icons, I could start adding the investigator information for this game.

      I am currently working on getting hi-res images of the icons from each game, so that the infoboxes can look a little better. Once I get those, including the AH LCG images, I will gladly start designing infoboxes for those. I did just have a baby, however, so that might take a while -- if you want to whip up some drafts based on the infrastructure for Template:InfoCoC, I would be happy to review those.

      By the way, I believe a list is more effective sometimes.

      "Independence Square is a location that appears in Arkham Horror Second Editionlocated in Arkham's Downtown neighborhood, and a Support Card that appears in the Call of Cthulhu: The Card Game Arkham Edition."

      You can be sure this is not the end of it, there will be more games where this location is present.

      Go ahead and try taking a wack at a new format for the ledes, on the respective talk pages -- Cthulhu and Shotgun would be good examples to do. I feel this problem would be avoided if we did go the subpage route, as well.

      The same goes for the bullet list of the people working at or attending Velma's Diner.

      Feel free to suggest bulleted lists as you come to them. For that one specifically, I'm not really sure a bulleted list is needed -- it's only three people, and using prose allows us to mention that the diner is named after Velma, and that Agnes is also an investigator.

      I consider the Investigators of Arkham Horror a prime source for general description and details

      If we can get a hold of the info, we should also take a look at the original Chaosium books. I know Harvey Walters and Carl Sanford in particular are taken wholecloth from the original tabletop game, but I'm not sure how many other Investigators are.

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    • Just to clarify, the citation doesn't need to say "short story dedicated to X". That's just what I put in until we can get the actual story titles.

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    • On "Investigators of Arkham Horror" there are no story titles, except for the name of the investigator it is dedicated to.

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    • Oh, and congratulations on having a baby! I forgot to answer at least that!

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    • Ah, then we should just use the name of the investigator as the story title, and link it to Vincent Lee (short story), for example.

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    • I'm hoping that we can eventually get to a point where we reference the game info something like MTG wiki, where a bit of flavortext will be used as a reference for some topic or another (Ex. Vaught or Archmage Magnus Arcanis).

      That link is not opening for me, and I can't find the pages you reference on that wiki, so I'm not sure what you're aiming for.

      All that I ask is that, for something that does already have an archetype (Elder Sign, Mansions, Call of Cthulhu), please use the existing pages as examples.

      I'm not going to add content from those games at the moment, but if it happens I'll do my best to stick to the templates.

      My suggestion for this kind of approach is that there should be pages for places, organizations, people/characters, ancient ones etc.
      I think Investigator would fulfill what you're talking about -- a page comparing the different incarnations of a topic across the media. I'm also planning to create a similar page for Enemies, Ancient Ones, and Locations, as those have the same topics showing up again and again. Feel free to start any that you think will work, using that as an example.

      - Yes, we definitely need those pages. - I don't necessarily think these pages should follow closely the Investigator page. For investigators, it's good to have a complete list detailing what games use each investigator, which expansion you need to buy to get that particular PC in that particular game, etc. This could probably work for monsters and ancient ones too. For locations I'd keep it simple, just a page with a list of places (for example, header 1: cities; header 2 neighborhood; header 3 building). When you open the page for the location you are interested in, you'll get the info on games etc. - By the way, this is not what I was talking about, sorry if I wasn't clearer. I was not talking about the big list pages, I was talking about each single page.

      These pages should start off with a general description for the item in the overall Arkham Horror files continuity (what you call 'fiction'); following that, there can be sections for each game, with card images, statistics, etc.

      For example, if I go on the Historical Society page, I want to know what it is, where is its building, who works there etc. Only then, you can tell me about what games it appears in. This is because to me the Historical Society is first and foremost a piece of the Arkham Files setting; then it has one or more incarnations in various games, which I may or may not be interested in. For example, the page on Velma's Diner currently opens with:

      Velma's Diner is a location that appears in Arkham Horror Second Edition located in Arkham's Easttown neighborhood.

      To me Velma's Diner is a restaurant located in Arkham's Easttown neighborhood. The fact that it's a location in Arkham Horror 2nd edition and in Arkham LCG's The Thread of Fate, is secondary.

      It's not meant to be "below CoC stats", but instead "below the introduction", which lists what the topic is (a character in X, a card in Y, a token in Z). If you take a look at Shotgun, for example, you'll see that all the stats go in the top right corner, which is just a function of it being an infobox.

      I think the introduction is saying what the investigator/character/place/organization is. Saying in what games it appears in and in what capacity is details, from an overall setting perspective.

      Quotes should be fine, for citations and appendices, but as a general rule we should avoid using direct quotes to fill in the fiction sections as it doesn't come off as optimal writing, and looks too close to plagiarism.

      Ok!

      if you want to whip up some drafts based on the infrastructure for Template:InfoCoC, I would be happy to review those.

      I'm not really up to speed with the syntax here (I used to work on wikidot), so if you can please point me in the general direction of a syntax guide I can give it a try.

      Feel free to suggest bulleted lists as you come to them. For that one specifically, I'm not really sure a bulleted list is needed -- it's only three people, and using prose allows us to mention that the diner is named after Velma, and that Agnes is also an investigator.

      Ah, this is a point I wanted to take up with you, about that "she moonlights as an investigator." I may be wrong, but to me "investigator" is just a game term to group the characters that the players use in the game. It doesn't mean that each investigator has an office where he received potential customer, gets information about their case, and agrees their fee. Most of the times it's just a bunch of people with different backgrounds and abilities that more often than not get caught up in things beyond their control. Think of how Mask of Nyarlathotep starts: each character is summoned by a common acquaintance, then something bad happens and you all decide to investigate what happened to your friend. So it strikes me as odd you'd say that Agnes moonlights as an investigator, Investigators of Arkham Horror says she works at Velma and has some strange visions/memories of past lives and a strange connection to Hyperborea, if she was an investigator I think it would mention it too.

      If we can get a hold of the info, we should also take a look at the original Chaosium books. I know Harvey Walters and Carl Sanford in particular are taken wholecloth from the original tabletop game, but I'm not sure how many other Investigators are.

      I'd really like that! But I wonder how much info would still be relevant. I'm not even sure all of the info from the older FFG games is correct at this point, like Arkham 2nd ed.

      Ah, then we should just use the name of the investigator as the story title, and link it to Vincent Lee (short story), for example.

      Could you please do one, so I can use it as reference? By the way, I've noticed you've been moving the Investigators of Arkham Horror fiction info below the MoM fiction info. So what is the correct listing order exactly?

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    • By the way, can we find a place for the hub pages we have/we will soon have? Like Investigator, Locations.

      You could add them to the front page, or to the top menu.

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    • Ok, I've played a bit with templates and I've tried creating a template for AHLCG investigators. (By the way, do you want me to spell out "Arkham Horror: The Card Game" every time or can we use a shorthand? I've used AH: LCG for the moment, I believe.)
      I tried to apply it to "Ashcan" Pete, let me know what you think.
      Fun fact: the text on the back of the investigator card is the same already present on the wiki, from the MoM investigator card. I only added the "C'mere, boy. We got work to do." bit that's on the front of the AHLCG card.

      Notes on things to check/finish:
      - I have no idea why health and sanity numbers are Bold.
      - having icons for the classes would be nice. Also, the icon for the elder sign, and various kinds of actions (action, free triggered, response).
      - Is it possible to have a cell called "Additional Setup" that only shows up if a variable has a value (different than nil)?
      - Are you planning on having different color infoboxes for different games? Some investigators have it, like Diana Stanley, but most don't.

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    • > To me Velma's Diner is a restaurant located in Arkham's Easttown neighborhood. The fact that it's a location in Arkham Horror 2nd edition and in Arkham LCG's The Thread of Fate, is secondary.

      I think I'll have to disagree on that, then. The fiction is produced as a supplement to the games, but the franchise is first and foremost about the games.

      > if she was an investigator I think it would mention it too.

      Not private investigator, just investigator. The intro text to each board game and expansion shows these characters coming together to investigate some mystery together.

      > I'm not even sure all of the info from the older FFG games is correct at this point, like Arkham 2nd ed.

      AH2E is the basis of the entire franchise, so it is by definition official.

      > By the way, I've noticed you've been moving the Investigators of Arkham Horror fiction info below the MoM fiction info. So what is the correct listing order exactly?

      It's not necessarily MoM. It's "The Story So Far", which most of the games share, and is meant to be a background to the character.

      > - Are you planning on having different color infoboxes for different games? Some investigators have it, like Diana Stanley, but most don't.

      Infobox colors are based on the color that type of card uses -- for example, MoM2 has green cards for condition cards.

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